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Why English Want to Be Italian (and Vice Versa)

February 4, 2008

In style, the grass often seems that little bit shinier and slinkier on the other side of the fence. As the proverb suggests, however, that is merely because you happen to live on one side.

The English want to be Italian. To them the Italian knows more, spends more and fits better into his clothes. It’s been a long time since brands proudly displayed on their labels that something was Made in Korea or Made in Taiwan. Now the location of production is hidden on an inside label unless, of course, it has been made in Italy.

Marks & Spencer has its Italian range, with the location of production proudly displayed on labels and advertising, and all against a deep red that suggests sophistication. Unfortunately for Marks, this wasn’t always true. The chain was successfully sued a few years ago when it emerged that pieces it claimed were made in Italy were actually manufactured in India and Egypt. Now the claim is that the pieces are of Italian design.

But while the English want to be Italian, Italians often want to be English. Or, at the least, English clothes and shoes inspire an idea of history and longevity, tradition and excellence. It wasn’t until I was on honeymoon in Italy that I realised how true this is. One chain called Sir Winston I found in Turin, Florence and Milan, and stocked every English brand I could think of from Edward Green to Barbour, Church’s to Mulberry.

It proudly claimed that all its shoes were made in Northampton. But to people with only a passing interest in clothes (probably those that shop at M&S) Northampton is not synonymous with fine English shoemaking. It’s just another northern town. Just like being made in Italy doesn’t necessarily mean quality, or sophistication, to an Italian.

Of course Americans want to be Italian and English, and few Italians or English want to be American. But there are brands that create a unique appeal to those on the other side of the Atlantic.

One of these is Ralph Lauren, and this brings me onto my second point about grass and its greenness. To a certain extent, foreign buyers are immune to the dilution of a brand that goes on at home. I am a big fan of Ralph Lauren here, but I’m sure if I lived in the US, and everyone I knew wore large, shapeless pony-branded polo shirts, that enthusiasm would be dampened.

Plus Ralph Lauren is sub-branded into so many categories in the US that the impression of quality suffers – alongside the Polo, Purple and Black labels there is Polo Jeans, Lauren by Ralph Lauren and even I believe Ralph by Ralph Lauren. Recently they launched another at the bottom of the scale, entitled Rugby. Unlike other brand divisions, such as Old Navy/Gap/Banana Republic, or Bershka/Zara/Massimo Dutti, the spread between Ralph Lauren’s top and bottom end is now so big that it’s hard for your opinion of the top end not to suffer.

So I am saved by my limited exposure to RL, only witnessing it in the beautiful Bond Street store.

The English equivalent may be Paul Smith, which while I am a big fan of, has an association with chavviness or laddishness in the UK (for readers in the US, this is the bottom end of the market). It has this association because of its sub-branding into Paul Smith, Paul Smith London, PS and Paul Smith Jeans. The brightly coloured t-shirts at one of the scale can’t help but affect your impression of the suits at the other.

Abroad, however, I know Paul Smith is very popular, and escapes this association. So the message should be, enjoy your view of the greener, slinkier grass on the other side. If you lived there it may well lose its luster.



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8 Guest Comments

  1. Yes, in every bad thing there is a good one. I wonder how globalization affects our style and clothing choices and what good and bad is in it.


    Comment by Fritz — February 4, 2008 #

  2. To be honest, I hope no English ever want to be Italian, or attempt to dress like Italians, I think Italians are tacky. Not every Englishman is stylish, but when he is , he is much more so than any Italian I have ever seen ..


    Comment by Victoria — February 4, 2008 #

  3. I don’t agree Victoria. I think your opinion on Italians is based on stereotypes . Italian men are generally more aware of their appearance than any other nationality and therefore many tend to be a bit showy and to some even ‘tacky’, but at least they care how they look. Not every Italian is stylish, but when he is, he is much more so than any other non-Italian I have seen.


    Comment by Fritz — February 4, 2008 #

  4. I think that the stylish Italian is a stereotype. I have seen so many badly dressed men in Italy. Walk the streets in any Italian city, and the average person is not particularly special. In Milan you might see some well-dressed fashion people outside the tents during fashion week, but these are people working in fashion, and half of them are foreign. I do see a good number of older well dressed men in Italy, but ‘when an Italian is stylish he is much more so than any other non-Italian I have seen’? Well, that’s your opinion. However, I believe the ’stereotyping’ is in fact the idea that ‘Oh yes, Italian men; the MOST stylish.’ And oh, believe me, I like good looking men! However, being ‘aware of your appearance’ does not mean that you are attractive or stylish I am afraid.


    Comment by Victoria — February 4, 2008 #

  5. And one extra point, I know you didn’t write that just because they care about their apperance, they are automatically stylish. The last point was just my thoughts.


    Comment by Victoria — February 4, 2008 #

  6. You can see ‘many badly dressed men’ in every country including Italy, but you won’t see so many well dressed men in any country like in Italy. ‘Average person is not particularly special’ anywhere, but compare how well dressed are those appearing on national television in Italy to those in England and I’m sure you’ll enjoy more watching RAI than BBC.


    Comment by Fritz — February 4, 2008 #

  7. Glad to see my posting stirred up a little debate. For what it’s worth, my opinion is that the Italians are on average better dressed, just. I was on honeymoon there this summer and I noticed two things - more often I saw what someone was wearing and it inspired me, and less often I saw someone in a t-shirt and jeans that had a depressing lack of awareness of how he looked.

    I think the tradition is stronger in Italy, and the average higher. But that does mean there are some very tacky dressers. And it does not mean that they all dress better, by any means. The average may be higher, but the standard deviation is just as big


    Comment by Simon — February 5, 2008 #

  8. Fritz: I guess our views are very much different at that point. The place with the highest number of well dressed people to me is Stockholm. Anyway, it doesn’t matter, you think the Italians are stylish, I (as I girl) don’t. To me; BBC is not stylish, but neither is RAI.

    And Simon, I think your article is great, and my thoughts doesn’t reflect what I think about your article.

    I have always been weak for British men though ..


    Comment by Victoria — February 5, 2008 #

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